Communist Body Count

by Scott Manning on December 4, 2006

The following estimates represent citizens killed or starved to death by their own Communist governments since 1918. These numbers do not include war dead. The governments are sorted by body count (highest to lowest).

All numbers are mid-estimates.

While this list is as complete as I have been able to determine, it is evolving. Some numbers are incomplete and there are still five Communist countries that have the potential to kill more of their citizens. Over the next year, each government will be profiled in detail on this website.

A detailed bibliography is listed at the end of this page. Feedback is more than welcome.

If you find this interesting, check out Nazi Body Count.

Communist Body Count: 149,469,610

RankCountry

1

People's Republic of China
Body Count: 73,237,000

1949-Present (57+ years and counting)

R.J. Rummel originally estimated China's body count between between the years of 1949-1987 to be 35,236,000 (Rummel 1994). This excluded 38,000,000 million that died of famine during the Great Leap Forward. After the release of Mao: The Unknown Story, Rummel became convinced that the Chinese government was directly responsible for the famine, thus increasing his original estimate by 38,000,000 (Rummel 2005). 1,000 was added for Tienanmen Square in 1989 (Courtois 1999).

2

USSR FlagUnion of Soviet Socialist Republics
Body Count: 58,627,000

1922-1991 (69 years)

The body count only covers the years 1923-1987 (Rummel 1996).

3

Russia FlagRussian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic
Body Count: 3,284,000

1918-1922 (4 years)

This body count does not include the 6,210,000 killed in the civil war (Rummel 1996).

4

North Korea FlagDemocratic People's Republic of Korea
Body Count: 3,163,000

1948-Present (58+ years and counting)

1,663,000 is attributed between 1948-1987 excluding the Korean War (Rummel 1994). 2,500,000 is the mid-estimate for those who starved to death between 1995-1998 (U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea 2006).

5

Cambodia FlagCambodia
Body Count: 2,627,000

1975-1987 (12 years)

The body count estimate is complete (Rummel 1994). The offical country name was Democratic Kampuchea during Pol Pot's reign and then known as People's Republic of Kampuchea afterwards.

6

Afghanistan FlagDemocratic Republic of Afghanistan
Body Count: 1,750,000

1978-1992 (14 years)

The body count estimate is complete (Courtois 1999).

7

Vietnam FlagVietnam
Body Count: 1,670,000

1975-Present (30+ years and counting)

The body count covers the years 1945-1987 for Vietnam/North Vietnam and excludes 1,062,000 from the Vietnam War (Rummel 1994).

8

Ethiopia FlagPeople's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
Body Count: 1,343,610

1974-1991 (17 years)

The body count includes 10,000 political assasinations during 1977-1978, 1,000 children killed in 1977, 110 massacred in an Orthodox church in 1975, 80,000 during the civil war between 1978-1980, 250,000 that died in 1982 through Transit Camps, and 2,500 killed in a bombing raid (Courtois 1999). Another 1,000,000 is added for the famine during 1984-1985 (BBC News 2000).

9

Yugoslavia FlagSocialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Body Count: 1,072,000

1945-1992 (47 years)

The body count only covers the years 1945-1992 excluding 100,000 from the Tito Partisans between 1941-1944 (Rummel 1994).

10

Chinese Soviet Republic FlagChinese Soviet Republic
Body Count: 700,000

1931-1934 (3 years)

The body count only includes the Jiangxi and Fujian provinces (Chang 2005). Although Mozambique has 700,000 to its name, the Chinese Soviet Republic produced more bodies in a shorter time period and the estimate is low.

11

Mozambique FlagPeople's Republic of Mozambique
Body Count: 700,000

1975-1990 (15 years)

100,000 civilians murdered between 1986 and mid-1988 (Young 1991) and 600,000 starved to death between 1975-1985 (Courtois 1999).

12

Romania FlagSocialist Republic of Romania
Body Count: 435,000

1947-1989 (42 years)

The body count only covers the years 1947-1987 (Rummel 1997).

13

Bulgaria FlagPeople's Republic of Bulgaria
Body Count: 222,000

1946-1990 (44 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1987 (Rummel 1997).

14

Angola FlagPeople's Republic of Angola
Body Count: 125,000

1975-1992 (17 years)

The body count only covers the years 1975-1987 (Rummel 1997).

15

Mongolia FlagMongolian People's Republic
Body Count: 100,000

1924-1992 (68 years)

The body count only covers the years 1924-1987 (Rummel 1997).

16

Albania FlagPeople's Socialist Republic of Albania
Body Count: 100,000

1946-1991 (45 years)

The body count only covers the years 1944-1987 (Rummel 1997).

17

Cuba FlagRepublic of Cuba
Body Count: 73,000

1961-Present (45+ years and counting)

The body count only covers the years 1959-1987 (Rummel 1997).

18

East Germany FlagGerman Democratic Republic
Body Count: 70,000

1949-1990 (41 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1987 (Rummel 1997).

19

Czechoslovakia FlagSocialist Republic of Czechoslovakia
Body Count: 65,000

1948-1990 (42 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1968 (Rummel 1997).

20

Laos FlagLao People's Democratic Republic
Body Count: 56,000

1975-Present (31+ years and counting)

The body count only covers the years 1975-1987 excluding 47,000 war dead (Rummel 1997).

21

Hungary FlagHungarian People's Republic
Body Count: 27,000

1949-1989 (40 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1987 (Rummel 1997).

22

Poland FlagPeople's Republic of Poland
Body Count: 22,000

1948-1989 (41 years)

The body count only covers the years 1948-1987 (Rummel 1997). Excludes 1,585,000 from ethnic cleansing between 1945-1950 (Rummel 1994).

23

Yemen FlagPeople's Democratic Republic of Yemen
Body Count: 1,000

1969-1990 (21 years)

The body count only covers the years 1969-1987 (Rummel 1997).

References

BBC News (2000, April 6). Flashback 1984: portrait of a famine. Retrieved May 7, 2006, from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/703958.stm

Chang, Jung, & Halliday, Jon (2005). Mao: the unknown story (1st American ed.). New York: Alfred A Knopf.

Courtois, S., Werth, N., Panne, J., Paczkowski, A., Bartosek, K., & Margolin, J. (1999). The black book of Communism: crimes, terror, repression. United States: Harvard University Press.

Rummel, R. J. (1994). Death by government. New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers.

Rummel, R. J. (1996). Lethal politics: Soviet genocide and mass murder since 1917 (1st paperback ed.). New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers.

Rummel, R. J. (2005, November 20). Reevaluating China’s democide to be 73,000,000. Retrieved April 5, 2006, from http://freedomspeace.blogspot.com/2005/11/reevaluating-chinas-democide-to-be.html

Rummel, R. J. (1997). Statistics of democide: genocide and mass murder since 1900. Charlottesville, Virginia: Transaction Publishers.

U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea (2006). Failure to protect: a call for the UN Security Council to act in North Korea. United States: DLA Piper.

Young, Lance S. (1991). Mozambique’s sixteen-year bloody civil war. Retrieved November 1, 2006, from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1991/YLS.htm

{ 53 comments… read them below or add one }

1 a fellow patriot March 30, 2011 at 1:25 AM

To think there are people in our current administration that are either communists are communist sympathizers is disconcerting to say the least all things considered.

Reply

2 Donald Duck April 6, 2011 at 2:37 PM

Hmmm, now try to find the same statistics whith every country USA has been in?

Just so you know it, most of those countries were sponsored by USA/CIA…
Except a very few….

/rofl

Reply

3 Anonymous October 16, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Dolan, we all tolerate your comments

Regards,
Gooby

Reply

4 John Aiton May 18, 2011 at 9:29 AM

FYI- NAZIS were socialist too, just like Protestants & Catholics are Christian, Sunni & Shiite are both Muslim.

Reply

5 Jon October 16, 2011 at 10:59 AM

John,

A point I make to anyone that will listen and a lot who won’t. You’d be surprised at how that infuriates today’s leftists.

Reply

6 Anonymous December 28, 2011 at 4:59 AM

While I can accept that the arguments from the Christians and Muslims with the sub-denominations you listed, how exactly was Hitlers regime ‘socialist’ in the same sense as the Soviet Union or the Peoples Republic of China? Hitler was opposed to left wing socio-economic theories like Socialism and Communism, and his regime would be more accurately described as Keynesian; the corporations, especially the ones supplying the arms for the Wermacht, were in bed with the government. Sound familiar?

In saying this, I am no ‘leftist’ myself, heck I’m not even American; more so someone who supports Free Market Capitalism and Free Trade.

Reply

7 Joe Brooks December 28, 2011 at 9:12 AM

Anon,

The NAZI party was the “National Socialist” party. There is no such thing as International Free Market Capitalism or Free Trade; those are both bogus concepts created by the Communists, Socialists and other scam for profit slave labor “governments” of the world into tricking ignorant Americans into giving away their manufacturing, wealth and prosperity.

Prior to 1950 American International “free traitors” [virtually all were Communist spies from the USSR and the PRC] were strictly in the Far Left hard core Communist camp and were vehemently opposed to the Founders American School of Economics, and still are.

Some examples:

Henry Carey and William McKinley:
THE AMERICAN SYSTEM VS. BRITISH FREE TRADE LOOTING

William McKinley was a U.S. Congressman in 1882 when he spoke on the tariff policy, and on the social conditions won for the people by nationalists associated with Abraham Lincoln. McKinley distinguished between a low tariff for purposes of collecting tax revenue only, and a higher tariff which deliberately protects native industries against trade war by foreign powers. McKinley asked his fellow Congressmen: who originated the free trade, low tariff policy?
“Who has demanded a tariff for revenue only…. What portion of our citizens? What part of our population? not the agriculturalist; not the laborer; not the mechanic; not the manufacturer; [there is] not a petition before us, to my knowledge, asking for an adjustment of tariff rates to a revenue basis.”
Congressman McKinley answered his own question: “England wants it, demands it–not for our good, but for hers; for she is more anxious to maintain her old position of supremacy than she is to promote the interests and welfare of the people of this republic, and a great party in this country voices her interest…. She would manufacture for us, and permit us to raise wheat and corn for her. We are satisfied to do the latter, but unwilling to concede to her the monopoly of the former.” The future President then explained why the British system was not appropriate to the United States: “…|Free trade may be suitable to Great Britain and its peculiar social and political structure, but it has no place in this republic, where classes are unknown, and where caste has long since been banished; where equality is a rule; where labor is dignified and honorable; where education and improvement are the individual striving of every citizen, no matter what may be the accident of his birth, or the poverty of his early surroundings. Here the mechanic of today is the manufacturer of a few years hence. Under such conditions, free trade can have no abiding place here.” McKinley on trade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ZUneyU7Vo&feature=related

Assassination
The President and Mrs. McKinley attended the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo, New York. He delivered a speech about his positions on tariffs and foreign trade on September 5, 1901. The following morning, McKinley visited Niagara Falls before returning to the Exposition. That afternoon McKinley had an engagement to greet the public at the Temple of Music. Standing in line, Leon Frank Czolgosz waited with a pistol in his right hand concealed by a handkerchief. At 4:07 p.m. Czolgosz fired twice at the president. The first bullet grazed his shoulder, but the second went through his stomach, pancreas, and kidney, and finally lodged in the muscles of his back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_mckinley
Murdered for practicing the American School of Economics and being Anti Communist.

Leon Frank Czolgosz (Polish pronunciation: [ˈt͡ʂɔlɡɔʂ]; May 5, 1873[1] – October 29, 1901; also used surname “Nieman” and variations thereof)[3] was the assassin of U.S. President William McKinley. In the last few years of his life, he claimed to have been heavily influenced by anarchists such as Emma Goldman and Alexander Berkman.
He became a recluse and spent much of his time alone reading Socialist and anarchist newspapers while drinking milk in his mother’s attic. He was impressed after hearing a speech by the political radical Emma Goldman, whom he met for the first time during one of her lectures in Cleveland in 1901. After the lecture Czolgosz approached the speakers’ platform and asked for reading recommendations. A few days later he visited her home in Chicago and introduced himself as Nieman, but Goldman was on her way to the train station. He only had enough time to explain to her about his disappointment in Cleveland’s socialists, and for Goldman to introduce him to her anarchist friends who were at the train station.[9] She later wrote a piece in defense of Czolgosz.[10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Frank_Czolgosz

The Murderous free trading Anarcho-Communist Emma Goldman:
Emma Goldman (June 27 (NS), 1869 – May 14, 1940) was an anarchist known for her political activism, writing and speeches. She played a pivotal role in the development of anarchist political philosophy in North America and Europe in the first half of the twentieth century.

On her first day in the city, Goldman met two men who would forever change her life. At Sachs’s Café, a gathering place for radicals, she was introduced to Alexander Berkman, an anarchist who invited her to a public speech that evening. They went to hear Johann Most, editor of a radical publication called Freiheit and an advocate of “propaganda of the deed”—the use of violence to instigate change.[27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Goldman

The Silvermaster spy ring operated primarily in the Department of the Treasury but also had contacts in the Army Air Force and in the White House. Sixty-one of the Venona cables concern the activities of the Silvermaster spy ring. This represents 1% of the total (approx 6,000 cables) and 3% of the (2,000) translated/partially translated VENONA cables.

Solomon Adler, aka Schlomer Adler, United States Department of the Treasury
, United States Department of Justice Anti-Trust Division
Frank Coe, Assistant Director, Division of Monetary Research, Treasury Department; Special Assistant to the United States Ambassador in London; Assistant to the Executive Director, Board of Economic Warfare; Assistant Administrator, Foreign Economic Administration
Lauchlin Currie, Administrative Assistant to President Roosevelt; Deputy Administrator of Foreign Economic Administration; Special Representative to China
Bela Gold, Assistant Head of Program Surveys, Bureau of Agricultural Economics, United States Department of Agriculture; Senate Subcommittee on War Mobilization; Office of Economic Programs in Foreign Economic Administration
Sonia Steinman Gold, Division of Monetary Research U.S. Treasury Department; U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on Interstate Migration; U.S. Bureau of Employment Security
Irving Kaplan, Foreign Funds Control and Division of Monetary Research, United States Department of the Treasury Foreign Economic Administration; chief advisor to the Military Government of Germany
George Silverman, civilian Chief Production Specialist, Material Division, Army Air Force Air Staff, War Department, Pentagon
William Henry Taylor, Assistant Director of the Middle East Division of Monetary Research, United States Department of Treasury
William Ullman, delegate to United Nations Charter meeting and Bretton Woods conference; Division of Monetary Research, Department of Treasury; Material and Services Division, Air Corps Headquarters, Pentagon
Anatole Boris Volkov
*These Communist economists/traitors/spies continued the destruction of the American School of Economics, eventually leading to unregulated “free trade”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Gregory_Silvermaster

Harry Dexter White (October 9, 1892 – August 16, 1948) was an American economist, and a senior U.S. Treasury department official. He was the senior American official at the 1944 Bretton Woods conference, and reportedly dominated the conference and imposed his vision of post-war financial institutions over the objections of John Maynard Keynes, the British representative. After the war, White was a major architect of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank.

In August 1948, White testified and defended his record to the House Un-American Activities Committee. Three days after testifying he died of a heart attack at his summer home in Fitzwilliam, NH. A number of sources, including the FBI and Soviet archives, indicate that he passed secret state information to the Soviet Union during World War II.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White

The “Amerasia Affair” became a touchstone for those who wanted to raise alarms about espionage and the possible Communist infiltration of the State Department. Senator Joseph McCarthy often spoke of the case in these terms, maintaining it was a security breach and cover-up of immense proportions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerasia

In 1944, Service was Second Secretary of the U.S. Embassy in Chungking, China. There he shared a house with two Communist agents: U.S. Treasury attaché Solomon Adler[1] and Chinese Ministry of Finance official Chi Chao-ting (Ji Chaoding).[2]

Adler had been identified five years before by confessed former Comintern-GRU courier Whittaker Chambers as a member of the Communist underground apparatus.[3] In 1945, defecting NKVD courier Elizabeth Bentley would likewise identify Adler as a Treasury official in Chungking who was also a member of an NKVD espionage ring known as the Silvermaster group.[4] In 1948, Chief of Soviet intelligence in the U.S. Anatoly Gorsky identified Adler (in KGB archives summarized by former KGB agent Alexander Vassiliev) as the agent code-named “Sachs,”[5] who appears in Venona as an NKVD source on China.[6] Chi, meanwhile, was a Communist propagandist[7] and intelligence agent.[8] After the fall of China to the Communists, both Adler and Chi would abscond to Beijing, where they would become officials of the new Communist government, Chi as a propagandist,[9] Adler as a foreign espionage official.[10]
http://www.conservapedia.com/John_Stewart_Service

This is a very tiny sample of the Communists’ “Free Trade” looting of America activities that are on-going in the US.

Nearly all other countries [Red China, Germany, Japan, India, Mexico, 140 other nations] tax American made goods into oblivion thru tariffs, hidden tariffs, a Value Added Tax, Border Duties or currency manipulation, used to subsidize their manufacturing base and increasing their profits, while looting American citizens of retirement plans, wages and prosperity. As another benefit, the country that was the leader of the free world in human rights and opportunity has been bankrupted and over run by free traders, privatization peddling bought and sold foreign lobbyists and Multi National corporation actors.
http://www.export.gov/logistics/eg_main_018142.asp

While the American? government gives away our prosperity thru no tariffs, Duties or VAT: http://hts.usitc.gov/

International “Free Trade” never was part of the Founders plan for the USA, and is not American in any way, shape or form. The Founders setup a national free trade zone in the USA, to promote national patriotism and a country of cohesive citizens:

The Report on Manufactures is the third report, and magnum opus, of American Founding Father and 1st U.S. Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton. It was presented to Congress on December 5, 1791 and recommended economic policies to stimulate the new republic’s economy and ensure the independence won with the conclusion of the Revolutionary War in 1783.

Since the “free traders” and and “libertarians” claim to be Constitutionalists, it is valid to point out that Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the specific right to “regulate commerce with foreign nations”. America’s leaders did just that, until the 1970’s.

Hamilton’s “Report on Manufactures” laid forth economic principles rooted in both the Mercantilist System of Elizabeth I’s England and the practices of Jean-Baptiste Colbert of France. The principal ideas of the “Report” would later be incorporated into the “American System” program by Senator Henry Clay of Kentucky and his Whig Party. Abraham Lincoln, who called himself a “Henry Clay tariff Whig” during his early years, would later make the principles outlined in the “Report” and furthered by Clay’s “American System” program cornerstones, together with opposition to the institution and expansion of slavery, of the fledgling Republican Party.

Hamilton’s ideas formed the basis for the American School of Economics.

Hamilton reasoned that to secure American independence, the United States needed to have a sound policy of encouraging the growth of manufacturing and secure its future as a permanent feature of the economic system of the nation. He argued these could be achieved through bounties or subsidies to industry, regulation of trade with moderate tariffs (not intended to discourage imports but to raise revenue to support American manufacturing through subsidy), and other government encouragement. These policies would not only promote the growth of manufacturing but provide diversified employment opportunities and promote immigration into the young United States. They would also expand the applications of technology and science for all quarters of the economy, including agriculture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_on_Manufactures

The Hamilton Tariff (ch. 2, 1 Stat. 24, enacted July 4, 1789, also called the Tariff of 1789) was the second statute ever enacted by the new federal government of the United States. Most of the rates of the revenue tariff were between 5 and 50 percent, depending on the value of the item. Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton was anxious to establish the tariff as a regular source of government revenue and to encourage the growth of domestic manufacturing to lessen America’s then-heavy dependence on foreign-made products. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_1789

Tariffs have a long, beneficial history in the US. The Federal government was almost exclusively financed thru import tariffs until 1913, there was no permanent Federal income tax on the citizens. At this time [2011], every other prospering country in the world practices protection of their economy. Tariffs were the main reason for the standard of living the US populace enjoyed for 150 years.

Red China has been reaping the rewards of 210 years of Communist work to the tune of 270 billion/year for 10 years, the moving of American factories and technologies into their borders along with Brazil, Mexico, India and anyone else with the intelligence to take advantage of the free trading groundwork laid by the Communists.

Reply

8 Anonymous December 31, 2011 at 12:56 PM

Well upon reading your response, the first word that would come to someone like myself would be ‘baffled’ as what appears to initially be a response to the idea that the Nazis were ‘Socialist’ in the same sense as the Soviets has now gone out of context to discussing Capitalism… hmm…

I don’t see the point in having to string out the actual name of the political party the Nazis affiliated with; are you trying to suggest that because it has the word ‘Socialist’ in it, that it therefore must subscribe to Marxist economic theory? Would you be this literal when reading out the full name of various Communist regimes throughout the 20th century that contained the word ‘Democratic’ in them and concluded they had free and fair elections a long with adhering to basic human rights? Of course you wouldn’t. If this is not your point, then by all means; make it more clear, but if this is then it’s a dubious argument to say the least. There are publications of Hitlers economic thoughts where he denounced Communism and all similar forms of economic theory (including Socialism, the backdoor into such a dystopian state). Yet again, his regime also coddled-up to German businesses, and even on occasions to corporations outside of the Third Reich. I can list examples of this if you care to browse through them. It could be argued that ‘Keynesianism’ would better describe the economic system of Nazi Germany.

As for your response about Free Markets and Free Trade (I do not wish to turn this into a spamfest); I find some of the points you raise to be dubious. Yes there were communist infiltrators into the US who used their version of a ‘free trade’ system to advocate the damaging of US exports, manufacturing, and goods, but all of the systems these subversives and traitors advocated was more akin to a form of Anarcho-Capitalism than Classical Economics, Classical Liberalism, or Libertarianism-based Free Markets. I could point you in the direction of American economic thinkers like Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell who did advocate Free Market Capitalism and Free Trade with reasonable amounts of regulations, and who have in turn heavily criticized Communist and Socialist economic theories of these very shady individuals you list. Friedman has also pointed out that Keynesian economic ideas work well in a time of crisis (such as the Depression), but ultimately have led to hyper-inflation (post-WW2 period), and to the bloated government the US is burdened with today that is economically unfeasible. None of these criticisms are unconstitutional in nature, nor did they intend for a backdoor for closet-authoritarians to infiltrate American society in the way you have presented, more so he has just illustrated the limited nature of Keynesian economic ideas. Friedman has also shown that the American economy, prior to the Great Depression, was very much akin to a Free Market Capitalist system; indeed the American economic school borrows from this concept on many levels.

I would be interested to hear the argument that the Austrian school of economics is somehow Communist dominated or infiltrated prior to that period, or even today; as its most famous proponent; Friedrich Hayek, was far from supporting such crazy ideas (he academically criticized them often in his life). Would it be your view that the philosopher Ayn Rand, who supported Free Market systems was also a subversive too?

Reply

9 Joe Brooks January 4, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Anonymous,

“I don’t see the point in having to string out the actual name of the political party the Nazis affiliated with; are you trying to suggest that because it has the word ‘Socialist’ in it, that it therefore must subscribe to Marxist economic theory? Would you be this literal when reading out the full name of various Communist regimes throughout the 20th century that contained the word ‘Democratic’ in them and concluded they had free and fair elections a long with adhering to basic human rights? Of course you wouldn’t. If this is not your point, then by all means; make it more clear, but if this is then it’s a dubious argument to say the least. There are publications of Hitlers economic thoughts where he denounced Communism and all similar forms of economic theory (including Socialism, the backdoor into such a dystopian state). Yet again, his regime also coddled-up to German businesses, and even on occasions to corporations outside of the Third Reich. ”

Anon, you have pretty much answered yourself, here. The Germans and Japanese currently have non Marxist Socialism, they practice State Capitalism [Corporatism] just like the USSR did and the PRC does, but instead of enslaving their populations, they actually want their countrymen to be successful.

“Yes there were communist infiltrators into the US who used their version of a ‘free trade’ system to advocate the damaging of US exports, manufacturing, and goods, but all of the systems these subversives and traitors advocated was more akin to a form of Anarcho-Capitalism than Classical Economics, Classical Liberalism, or Libertarianism-based Free Markets. ”

Important and not dubious, it is obvious to anyone who looks:
“but all of the systems these subversives and traitors advocated was more akin to a form of Anarcho-Capitalism ”

Very good, you have made my point for me. There is absolutely no difference between Anarcho-Capitalism and Psycho-Babble “Classical Libertarianism, Classical Liberalism [BTW-how is this economic conservatism?], and Anarcho-Communist “free markets”.

Read these please, and you will no longer be baffled. The Libertarians [Rothbard, Paul, Friedman, etc.] are self proclaimed Anarcho-Capitalists, the very ideology that we both agree on that is the legacy of the 1920s thru 1980s and current communist infiltrators.

Many of the US infiltrating Communists subscribed to the London School of Economics [free trade].

“I would be interested to hear the argument that the Austrian school of economics is somehow Communist dominated or infiltrated prior to that period, or even today; as its most famous proponent; Friedrich Hayek [A known Fabian Communist free trader-JB], was far from supporting such crazy ideas (he academically criticized them often in his life {a hoax –JB}. Would it be your view that the philosopher Ayn Rand, who supported Free Market systems was also a subversive too?”
JB Yep, see the section on Rand.

Here is a point by point proof that the London School of Economics was founded and financed by Communists. As you will see, the Austrian School is virtually identical in thought to the LSE Communists thru Hayek and many other “free traders”. Free trade for Anti Communist countries is strictly a Communist perpetrated con game, to loot and weaken their enemies.

The London School of Economics was founded in 1895[18] by Beatrice and Sidney Webb,[19] initially funded by a bequest of £20,000[20][21] from the estate of Henry Hunt Hutchinson. Hutchinson, a lawyer[20] and member of the Fabian Society,[22][23] left the money in trust, to be put “towards advancing its [The Fabian Society's] objects in any way they [the trustees] deem advisable”.[23] The five trustees were Sidney Webb, Edward Pease, Constance Hutchinson, William de Mattos and William Clark.[20]

LSE records that the proposal to establish the school was conceived during a breakfast meeting on 4 August 1894, between the Webbs, Graham Wallas and George Bernard Shaw.[18] The proposal was accepted by the trustees in February 1895[23] and LSE held its first classes in October of that year, in rooms at 9 John Street, Adelphi,[24] in the City of Westminster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_school_of_economics

George Bernard Shaw (26 July 1856 – 2 November 1950) was an Irish playwright and a co-founder of the London School of Economics [Fabian Communist Free Traders].
Shaw was a murderous Communist scumbag.

A recent documentary, The Soviet Story, includes an extensive clip of film in which George Bernard Shaw, facing the camera, is apparently speaking in favor of discarding those members of society ‘who are no use in this world’:
“You must all know half a dozen people at least who are no use in this world, who are more trouble than they are worth. Just put them there and say Sir, or Madam, now will you be kind enough to justify your existence? If you can’t justify your existence, if you’re not pulling your weight in the social boat, if you’re not producing as much as you consume or perhaps a little more, then, clearly, we cannot use the organizations of our society for the purpose of keeping you alive, because your life does not benefit us and it can’t be of very much use to yourself”.[65]

Shaw echoes this sentiment in the preface to his play On the Rocks (1933) writing:
“But the most elaborate code of this sort would still have left unspecified a hundred ways in which wreckers of Communism could have sidetracked it without ever having to face the essential questions: are you pulling your weight in the social boat? are you giving more trouble than you are worth? have you earned the privilege of living in a civilized community? That is why the Russians were forced to set up an Inquisition or Star Chamber, called at first the Cheka and now the Gay Pay Oo (Ogpu), to go into these questions and “liquidate” persons who could not answer them satisfactorily”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw

Friedrich August Hayek CH (German pronunciation: [ˈfʁiːdʁɪç ˈaʊ̯gʊst ˈhaɪ̯ɛk]) (8 May 1899 – 23 March 1992), born in Austria-Hungary as Friedrich August von Hayek, was an economist and philosopher best known for his defense of classical liberalism and free-market capitalism against socialist and collectivist thought [A hoax-JB]. He is considered to be one of the most important economists and political philosophers of the twentieth century, winning the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 1974. Along with his mentor Ludwig von Mises, he was an important contributor to the Austrian school of political economy.[1] Hayek’s account of how changing prices communicate information which enable individuals to coordinate their plans is widely regarded as an important achievement in economics.[2] Hayek also produced significant work in the fields of systems thinking, jurisprudence, neuroscience and the history of ideas.

Hayek lived in Austria, Great Britain, the United States and Germany, and became a British subject in 1938. He spent most of his academic life at the London School of Economics (LSE) [They were Fabian free trading Communists-JB], the University of Chicago [Chicago School of Economics, Psycho-Babble free trade Economics], and the University of Freiburg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek

Simon Smith Kuznets (April 30, 1901 – July 8, 1985) was a Russian American economist at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania who won the 1971 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences “for his empirically founded interpretation of economic growth which has led to new and deepened insight into the economic and social structure and process of development”. From 1925 to 1926, Kuznets spent time studying economic patterns in prices as the Research Fellow at the Social Science Research Council. It was this work that led to his book Secular [Secular= Communism in practice-JB] Movements in Production and Prices, published in 1930.
This paved the way for Milton Friedman’s Permanent Income Hypothesis, and several more modern alternatives such as the Life cycle hypothesis and the Relative Income Hypothesis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Kuznets

Milton Friedman (July 31, 1912 – November 16, 2006) was an American economist, statistician, a professor at the University of Chicago, and the recipient of the Nobel Prize in Economics. Born to parents from Beregszász in Hungary (now Berehove, part of Ukraine).
Friedman’s political philosophy, which he considered classically liberal and libertarian, emphasized the advantages of free market economics and the disadvantages of government intervention and regulation, strongly influencing the opinions of American conservatives and libertarians [Anarcho-Communists JB]. In his 1962 book Capitalism and Freedom, Friedman advocated policies such as a volunteer military, freely floating exchange rates, abolition of medical licenses, a negative income tax, and education vouchers.[6] [His economic thoughts on “free trade” are very similar to the Silvermaster group of economists. JB]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman

Critical to understanding what is wrong with America:

Murray Newton Rothbard (March 2, 1926 – January 7, 1995) was an American individualist anarchist,[1] author, and economist of the Austrian School who helped define modern libertarianism and popularized a form of free-market anarchism he termed “anarcho-capitalism”.[2][3] Rothbard wrote over twenty books and is considered a centrally important figure in the American libertarian movement.[4] Rothbard was born to David and Rae Rothbard, who raised their Jewish family in the Bronx. His father worked as a chemist and migrated to the US from Poland, while his mother came from Russia.[21] “I grew up in a Communist culture,” he recalled.[22]

During the early 1950s, he studied under the Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises at his seminars at New York University and was greatly influenced by Mises’ book Human Action.

From 1978 to 1983, he was associated with the Libertarian Party Radical Caucus, allying himself with Justin Raimondo, Eric Garris and Williamson Evers. He opposed the “low tax liberalism” espoused by 1980 Libertarian Party presidential candidate Ed Clark and Cato Institute president Edward H Crane III. According to Charles Burris, “Rothbard and Crane became bitter rivals after disputes emerging from the 1980 LP presidential campaign of Ed Clark carried over to strategic direction and management of Cato.”[71] Rothbard split with the Radical Caucus at the 1983 national convention over cultural issues, and aligned himself with what he called the “rightwing populist” wing of the party, notably Lew Rockwell and Ron Paul, who ran for President on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1988 and in the 2008 Republican Party Primaries. “Rothbard worked closely with Lew Rockwell (joined later by his long time friend Burt Blumert) in nurturing the Ludwig von Mises Institute, and the publication, The Rothbard-Rockwell Report (which after Rothbard’s 1995 death evolved into the popular website, LewRockwell.com.”[71] [Lew’s site is a little truth mixed in with a Communist rewrite of history.]

The usual Communist slavery and breakup of the family-JB: In the Ethics of Liberty Rothbard explores in terms of self-ownership and contract several contentious issues regarding children’s rights. These include women’s right to abortion, proscriptions on parents aggressing against children once they are born, and the issue of the state forcing parents to care for children, including those with severe health problems. He also holds children have the right to “run away” from parents and seek new guardians as soon as they are able to choose to do so. He suggested parents have the right to put a child out for adoption or even sell the rights to the child in a voluntary contract, which he feels is more humane than artificial governmental restriction of the number of children available to willing and often superior parents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard
His economic thoughts on “free trade” are very similar to the Silvermaster group of economists.

Read this economic Psycho-Babble by Rothbard:
From the1986 Mises Institute Rothbard article on the previous page: “So, by imposing protective tariffs and quotas to save, bail out, and keep in place less efficient U.S. textile or auto or microchip firms, the protectionists are not only injuring the American consumer. They are also harming efficient U.S. firms and industries, which are prevented from employing resources now locked into incompetent firms, and who could otherwise be able to expand and sell their efficient products at home and abroad. But what of the poor American TV firms, whose sales will suffer so long as Sony is willing to virtually give their sets away?
Well, surely, the sensible policy for RCA, Zenith, etc. would be to hold back production and sales until Sony drives itself into bankruptcy. But suppose that the worst happens, and RCA, Zenith, etc. are themselves driven into bankruptcy by the Sony price war? Well, in that case, we the consumers will still be better off, since the plants of the bankrupt firms, which would still be in existence, would be picked up for a song at auction, and the American buyers at auction would be able to enter the TV business and outcompete [How? When nearly every other country protects their economies and people? JB] Sony because they now enjoy far lower capital costs.”
https://mises.org/rothbard/protectionism.pdf

The above Communist psycho babble from 1986 has worked out great, huh? The result? All of those companies have been destroyed by “free trade” or operate in Red China, Mexico, India etc.. America could not produce a TV, Radio, Cell phone, PC, automobile electronics, battleship, etc. if our lives depended on it and the “interdependent” US companies he referred to are gone, as well. We are becoming a third world country, totally dependent on Communist China, India, Mexico etc.

Ayn Rand; free trade Communist:

“She denounced libertarianism, which she associated with anarchism.[103] She rejected anarchism as a naïve theory based in subjectivism that could only lead to collectivism in practice.[104]“ [ She was preaching Communist, Anarchist and Libertarian free trade. How is this a denunciation? JB] . Born and educated in Russia, Rand moved to the US in 1926. She supported laissez-faire free trade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_rand

Unfortunately, she is absolutely correct in the above statement, as the ludicrous free trade [Anarcho-Capitalism/Communism] the US has been following has led to huge trade deficits, massive State and Federal Debt, massive losses in the areas of jobs, revenues, private property [homes], educational opportunities, etc. for a large portion of Americans. Fifty percent of working people in the US are so poor they pay no taxes and roughly 21 million receive money thru the Earned Income tax credit. 1 in 7 Americans living in poverty, 50 million on food stamps. They have no choice but to accept Federal and state government assistance to survive. Dependent on their government for food, housing, clothing, education, healthcare and the essentials of living. Not because they are unwilling to work, but because “free trade” has decimated the traditional middle class work places.

So, we can see that the practical application of one of Rand’s core beliefs, does lead to Anarcho-Communism/Capitalism. Read the comments, here. Rand was a Sociopath who worshipped a child abuser/murderer who she thought exemplified “rational self interest”; her Objectivist philosophy of selfishness and no morals: http://today.yougov.com/news/2011/07/29/61-have-heard-ayn-rand-35-have-favorable-view/

It is very interesting that most of the creators [von Mises, von Hayek, Kuznets, Rand, Freidman, Rothbard] of Libertarian and Objectivist free trade were all highly educated German aristocrats or USSR era Russian immigrants, or children of highly educated USSR era Russian immigrants. How did the Russians get out of a police state that used barbed wire and machine guns to keep persons [especially educated individuals] in country to facilitate the USSR’s goals?

Silvermaster and many other Russian free traders were discovered spies, how many more were undetected and more competent or had better cover stories?

All of this type of hysterical, pseudo-intellectual, European/Eurasian Psycho-Babble Ideology/Economic Theory leads to wars, Globalism, criminal government, free trade, anarchy, slave labor and poverty. They are methods to implement Communism and overturn the Constitution. Libertarianism, Anarcho-Capitalism, Objectivism, Communism, Anarchy are all variations on this same theme: Criminal Communist free trade looting of anti-Communist countries, followed by full-blown Communist Criminal governments.

Why would Americans contemplate anything but the American School of Economics, with a little Fordism [Ford was an American]-The essential meaning is that the worker must be paid higher wages in order to afford the products that the industrialist himself produces, causing an economy that runs full-circle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_ford

David Friedman is the son of economists Rose and Milton Friedman. His son, Patri Friedman, has also written about anarcho-capitalism, particularly seasteading. David Friedman holds an A.B. from Harvard University and a Ph.D. in Physics from the University of Chicago, although he is most known for work in other fields. He is currently a professor of law at Santa Clara University, and a contributing editor for Liberty magazine. He is an atheist.[2]

Anarcho-capitalism
In his book The Machinery of Freedom (1973), Friedman sketched a form of anarcho-capitalism where all goods and services including law itself can be produced by the free market. This differs from the version proposed by Murray Rothbard, where a legal code would first be consented to by the parties involved in setting up the anarcho-capitalist society. Friedman advocates an incrementalist approach to achieve anarcho-capitalism by gradual privatization of areas that government is involved in, ultimately privatizing law and order itself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_D._Friedman

This is a complete embrace of the USSR/Red Chinese system of “government”. How do you think the USSR murdered 60 million of their citizens, and the PRC has, to date, murdered 70 million, without judicial and police prosecution of the mass murderers? Everything is for profit; the laws, the legal system, the prisons, the politicians are stooges of the criminal corporate Communists, there is no beneficial rule of law for anyone but the wealthy [the inner party], the vast majority of the population are nothing but slaves, with no hope for improvement. Of course, once Criminal Communist governments are implemented “free trade” goes out of the window and economic protection of Communist Corporations reigns.

Your future under Communism:
The Black Book of Communism, a set of academic essays on mass killings under Communist regimes, details “‘crimes, terror, and repression’ from Russia in 1917 to Afghanistan in 1989″.[39][40] Courtois claims an association between communism and criminality—”Communist regimes … turned mass crime into a full-blown system of government”[41]—and says that this criminality lies at the level of ideology rather than state practice.[42]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

Anon, I think we can lay this issue to rest “free trade” Anarcho-Capitalism/Communism and Libertarianism, Objectivism, Anarchism, Classical BS, whatever you want call it are the same thing.

I agree that economics may not be an exact science, but it is obvious to anyone who studies this field, that is has been inundated with Marxists, Anarchists, Libertarians, Objectivists, Foreign Lobbyists, Idiots, Morons, Spies, that 99% of US economic theory is just plain hidden agenda Psycho-Babble, devised to enrich a special interest; be it a country, a corporation, or an ideology.

The American School of Economics is not an experiment. Protectionism works. Period. The Japanese, Germans, Red Chinese, Indians, Brazilians, 150 other nations all practice protectionism. They all have industry and a future [in Red China, the CCP members, anyway]. Only the US practices idiot free trade and we have just seen why.

Anonymous, there really is no legitimate debate with regard to a nation’s inherent duty to protect its own citizen’s prosperity. It is a given that if the nation wants to survive, it will protect itself. Otherwise, it is just a money pit for scoundrels, bums, foreign lobbyists and looters. 140 nations are currently doing so. The evidence is beyond overwhelming, it is a simple statement of the blatantly obvious facts. I agree that some unethical opportunists will try to game the system; that is why regulation is needed. Regulations control the actions of people, not the market.

I have much more on this issue, but this debate should be moved here: http://economyincrisis.org/content/regaining-prosperity-americas-middle-class

Or here: http://www.tradereform.org/2012/01/why-free-market-economics-is-a-fraud-2/

I hope to see your arguments, in a proper setting, Joe Brooks

10 Old Odd Jobs May 23, 2013 at 9:02 PM

According to Joe Brooks, lifelong opponents of communism such as Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard are in fact communists. According to Joe Brooks, a world in which property is privately owned is the same as a world in which everything belongs to the state. Basically, free markets = socialism = capitalism = communism.

I am impressed that you manage to pack so many question-begging contradictions into your philosophy, Joe. But where does it all leave you? Your own position must now surely fall into one (or all?) of these categories, now that political taxonomy has been so bafflingly reduced to “everything = everything” ! You think governments should prop up domestic industries. You are a protectionist. Wow, what a true radical!

Thank God for wikipedia, too!

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11 Joe Brooks May 24, 2013 at 5:15 AM

Old Odd Jobs, I suggest you actually read the information presented. Wikipedia is used because it is free, all references I use are checked for accuracy. Without a doubt, von Mises was a Communist member of the Weimar Republic.

Communism is State Capitalism, business run for a small minority of monolithic corporations. What do you think the Gulags and slave labor for profit camps, the USSR corporate state union, the Red Chinese corporate union were/are about?

Many people know what is wrong :

http://www.dylanratigan.com/2011/08/23/the-cost-of-corporate-communism/

12 Matt May 25, 2011 at 5:48 PM

150,000,000 soviet citizens!? Shut up! And that doesn’t include 25,000,000 war dead!? And they still managed to completely industrialise (no mean feat btw!), fight off a war of intervention from the British, French, Germans etc after the revolution and manage to achieve scientific excellence in numerous fields such as space exploration?? Oh, not to mention the massive international effort to support other socialist groups around the world such as Cuba. Think about it! That’s absolute rubbish, and your sources are just plain wrong! You’re nothing but a mouthpiece for the ruling class, and a shit one at that! Viva Revolution fuck head!

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13 Joe Brooks June 8, 2011 at 1:09 PM

Hey Matt, you may want to take a 2nd look at your numbers, they are wrong. The Soviets mass murdered around 60 million, and it was well known in the 1950′s that they had killed over 35 million by the late 1940′s. Btw, slave labor is not an accomplishment to embrace, read “The Gulag Archipelago” sometime. The book is required reading to graduate High School in Russia, now.

The Black Book of Communism, a set of academic essays on mass killings under Communist regimes, details “‘crimes, terror, and repression’ from Russia in 1917 to Afghanistan in 1989″.[39][not in citation given][40] Courtois claims an association between communism and criminality—”Communist regimes … turned mass crime into a full-blown system of government”[41]—and says that this criminality lies at the level of ideology rather than state practice.[42]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

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14 Sean June 12, 2011 at 4:53 AM

It’s not 150 million Soivet citizens moron – there is a list by country? You lefty whackos are responsible for the most murderous century in human history, with Marxists making the Nazis look like amateurs. Lenin and Stalin are two of the most evil men to ever have lived.

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15 Ken July 3, 2011 at 8:57 AM

Meanwhile back in the good old US of A only 45,000 people die each year due to lack of health insurance. This is according to a Harvard study. Good thing we have the soldiers of god looking out for us

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16 John Aiton July 10, 2011 at 12:28 AM

Another Urban Myth up there with Man Made Global Warming .
Control Health Care and Means of Production ( via energy) – soft tranny.

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17 Amy September 25, 2011 at 9:37 PM

What bull. Health care is available to everyone in the U.S. including illegals it seems. All you have to do is go to the hospital and they cannot turn you down. I know many who do not have health insurance simply because they refuse to pay for it even tho they can afford to do so. U.S. hospitals are going broke trying to pick up the costs for free care to illegals and the so called poor, who have t.v., cell phones, cars and to top it all off get more welfare money at the end of the year by the IRS without ever paying any taxes.
Meanwhile those who are on medicaid (free) get more benefits than Seniors (medicare) who paid into the system all their lives.
Seniors can only have one pabst smear test every year while those on the free medicaid can have it every year. Those who are on medicaid (free)pay no deductibles or co payments, while those on Medicare and pay into the fund, have to pay deductibles and co payments.
Medicaid (free) even covers immigrants who are working and can well afford to pay insurance but refuse to do so. As for illegals why should they get any health care, they broke our laws and should be deported. Go to any other country in the world and see if they give any American free health care. What a fool you are. Typical liberal!
Get your facts straight before you start the liberal lies.
America is BROKE, because of crooked politicians and liberals like you, we can no longer support the world while we are starving.

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18 Joe Brooks July 7, 2011 at 7:24 AM

Ken, I think you are saying that the defunct American form of government, 1789 to 1975, was worse than Communism?

If that is your point, you may want to read “The Red Plot Against America” by Robert Stripling. It is available from Amazon. I think you may be surprised by what ideology appears to be the policy of US elected leaders for at least 20 years.

Here is the link: “Robert Stripling’s The Red Plot Against America was published in 1949, but has long been forgotten due to the liberal memory hole that dictates our popular recollections of that era. Having served ten years as Chief Investigator of the bipartisan House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), Stripling provided a substantive primer on the precise nature of the Communist threat against the United States of America — specifically, the threat from within the United States of America. The Red Plot narrates HUAC’s meticulous work — names and dates, details and wranglings — which had been underway since 1938 and in which Stripling had been a prime mover. ”

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Plot-Against-America-Anti-Movements/product-reviews/0405099762/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

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19 John Aiton July 10, 2011 at 12:31 AM

Another good read is “Dupes” by Paul Kengor.

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20 a fellow patriot July 10, 2011 at 1:21 AM
21 Ray August 10, 2011 at 8:21 AM

Wow! What an impressive presentation. I appreciate the information you put together on the “Communist Body Count” and the “Nazi Body Count”. The information you provided was very concise and easy to understand.
My neighbor, who graduated Magna Cum Laude from a prestigious Law School, who is a frequently published Historian, a partner in a Nationally recognized Law Firm, and is licensed to practice law in Washington DC, in other words, a really bright guy, commented to me that throughout history there have been more deaths caused by religion than any other cause. He cited the “Inquisition” and the “Crusades” as proof.
Over the years, I have heard this comment several times, usually from liberals, so I decided to do a little research. After much digging, I found that in the 500 years of the Inquisition, there were a total of about 6,000 deaths. The Crusades accounted for roughly 1.5 million deaths. Have you thought of doing a study on these topics? It would be very interesting and helpful in refuting this liberal mantra about religion.
Thanks……..Ray

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22 Bob August 24, 2011 at 3:34 AM

The crusades were a very badly executed defensive war. Do your own research on the subject and don’t just believe all the hate the left puts out about them.

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23 Paweł Żuk November 28, 2011 at 2:37 AM

I like how people lap up numbers as PATENTLY ABSURD as these as long as they confirm their preconceptions, without the slightest attempt at verifyig if they even add up.

For Soviet Russia (in all forms) the total number given, including the civil war, is 68 121 000 dead.

Let’s examine it, shall we? According to the last Tsarist census done in 1897, the population of the Empire was 125 640 000 or thereabouts. We will assume it grew at an absurd rate of 0.5% yearly (a staggering number ; No country has EVER grown that fast through decades, especially not an agrarian one like tsarist russia)

So we end up with 138 819 000 people or so in 1917. According to Rummel (what a great source to use BTW :D ), the civil war killed 6 210 000 people, so we enter the communist era with 132 609 000 people still alive. Substract another 3 284 000 killed from 1918-1922, which gives us 129 325 000. Factor in Rummel’s average yearly death count until 1941 so that the picture is proper: 1941-1922 is 19 years, so 19*849 666 = 16 143 666.

Then, again assume generously all that death was instant and did not impact the growth rate at all: that 0.5% yearly growth resumed instantly and lasted until WWII (why, those frisky Russian horndogs!)

That gives us 127 574 000 people in 1941. 20 million people die during WWII.

So, from a total population of 117 574 000 in 1945. We will again go with 0.5% yearly growth.

So, 1989-1945: 44 years. At constant 0.5% annual growth (absurd!), we end up with 146 425 000 or so people in 1989. But now we factor Rummel’s average yearly death rate: 44 years times 849 666 is 37 385 304 people, so in 1989 Russia should have 109 040 000 people.

Somehow, the first census conducted after communism fell gave the population at 148 689 000 in 1991…

So, even assuming constant population growth of 0.5% throughout a century full of war and misery, it would not be enough to offset Rummel’s absurd given death toll for communist Russia! I made the most generous assumptions for population growth, and only used census data given by non-communists (because commies lie in everything!!!). Yet there’s still 30 million people who *poof* sprung out of nowhere :D

(BTW, Soviet and Tsarist Russia included the Ukraine, which was lost in 1991, so that’s millions more people that should be dropped from the census)

The only way the disparity can be covered if we assume a staggering 1% population growth since 1897.

There’s other problems with the list, for example portraying the 1945-1950 forced relocations in Poland as “ethnic cleansing”. Seriously, what?

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24 Joe Brooks November 28, 2011 at 4:17 PM

“Yet there’s still 30 million people who *poof* sprung out of nowhere”

Pawel, you are overlooking a major aspect of the USSR’s population growth; they were invading and occupying the so called “Eastern Bloc” countries from 1937 to 1955 and adding those massive numbers of skilled workers/nations to the overall population of the USSR.

Formation of Eastern Bloc
2.1 Initial control process
2.2 Property relocation
2.3 East Germany
2.4 Poland
2.5 Hungary
2.6 Bulgaria
2.7 Czechoslovakia
2.8 Romania
2.9 Albania
2.10 Yugoslavia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_USSR_Satellite_states

Here is a resource that shows the populations added to the USSR: http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/population/russia.htm

Approximately 70 million forced into Soviet servitude from 1939 to 1951

Your population numbers [please provide a citation] do not tally with the agreed “suspect” USSR figures, leaving plenty of room for 30/40 million more murdered human beings, despite the 20 million WW2 combatant deaths, reflected in the mid 1940s to the early 1950s satellite state population/territory expansions, particularly 1946 to 1951:

January 1897 (Russia): 125,640,000
1911 (Russia): 167,003,000
January 1920 (Russia): 137,727,000*
January 1926 : 148,656,000[2]
January 1937: 162,500,000[2]
January 1939: 168,524,000[2]
June 1941: 196,716,000[2]
January 1946: 170,548,000[2]
January 1951: 182,321,000[2]
January 1959: 209,035,000[2]
January 1970: 241,720,000[3]
1985: 272,000,000
July 1991: 293,047,571 [Total USSR population, of course this went down with these great events : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989 JB]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Soviet_Union

“Somehow, the first census conducted after communism fell gave the population at 148 689 000 in 1991…” [Correct for Russia alone-does not apply to the USSR. JB]

Regardless, no amount of temporizing can “rehabilitate” the USSR or any other Communist criminal enterprise:
“whether it’s fifteen or fifty million, it’s still a huge number of killings”
http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Stalin

I disagree with nearly all of your conclusions; but I will agree with this:

“because commies lie in everything”

The Truth about Communism/Marxism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO2IAwWl35A

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25 Paweł Żuk November 29, 2011 at 2:31 AM

“Pawel, you are overlooking a major aspect of the USSR’s population growth; they were invading and occupying the so called “Eastern Bloc” countries from 1937 to 1955 and adding those massive numbers of skilled workers/nations to the overall population of the USSR.”

Actually, no, I did not overlook it. Rummel gave figures for the first Russian Federation and then the USSR. Being generous, I started my little experiment going with the last population census done in Tsarist Russia in 1897. Note that Tsarist Russia encompassed the Baltics, Poland and the Ukraine, which were lost in 1918. Then there was the war of 1920-1921 which saw further territorial losses for Russia (parts of modern belarussia)

You seem to be further confusing the USSR and the entirety of the Eastern Block as well. Yugoslavia, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary, East Germany etc. were never part of the USSR proper. And of course I was even more generous and did not include the population losses in 1991 resulting from the breakup of the USSR. Ukraine alone was 40 million people…which would leave Russia proper massively depopulated if we took Rummel’s figures at face value.

“Here is a resource that shows the populations added to the USSR: http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/population/russia.htm

Approximately 70 million forced into Soviet servitude from 1939 to 1951″

This actually shows populations of the entire Eastern Block, not the USSR proper.

“Your population numbers [please provide a citation] do not tally with the agreed “suspect” USSR figures, leaving plenty of room for 30/40 million more murdered human beings, despite the 20 million WW2 combatant deaths, reflected in the mid 1940s to the early 1950s satellite state population/territory expansions, particularly 1946 to 1951:”

You’re missing the point ; My calculations don’t match because they are using Rummel’s death toll numbers. That’s the entire point!

I only used two census figures: the 1897 Tsarist census and a 1991 census conducted in the Russian Federation. I did it on purpose, just to show that even a simple analysis shows the figures to be completely absurd: and that’s using utterly insane assumptions, like not including population losses from 1918 breakway of Poland and the Ukraine that would rejiggle the results down, not up.

“Regardless, no amount of temporizing can “rehabilitate” the USSR or any other Communist criminal enterprise:
“whether it’s fifteen or fifty million, it’s still a huge number of killings”
http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Stalin“”

Actually it CAN rehabilitate the USSR somewhat, because there is this Cold War tendency to try and paint Soviet Russia as…I don’t know what, a nation with roving death squads murdering people left and right and work camps worse than Nazi murder factories I suppose. There is also the simple aspect of historical truth: simply put, Rummel’s numbers do not match archival evidence we now have access to, yet they are being endlessly repeated and reprinted (despite Rummel not even being a historian :D ) all over the Internet in an effort to demonize the US opponent.

I also couldn’t help but notice your list keeps trying to misrepresent some events. I already mentioned the 1945-1950 Polish “ethnic cleansing”. Rummel’s numbers also attribute deaths from mismanagement and industrialization and civil war to the ideology of communism, which is…dishonest.

I also noticed you are saying things about “20 million combatant deaths” in WWII in a pretty transparent attempt to further paint Russians as a bunch of callous psychos (most of these 20 million were NOT combatants, but were in fact civilians outright murdered by the Nazis)

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26 Joe Brooks November 29, 2011 at 9:35 AM

Pawel, we are clearly not going to come to an agreement on these issues, as you are clearly Pro-Communism, as such you cannot admit the truth.

You should take the time to actually read the references in my post, all of your misdirection and inconsistency “arguments” were already addressed.

I do my own research, not relying on any one resource. The fact that Rummel has a degree in Political Science, not history, is meaningless and has no bearing on his credibility. These types of arguments are standard Communist ploys, see the below video.

“Rudolph Rummel talks about the “miracle” of liberty and peace, and is an outspoken critic of communism.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._J._Rummel
This is why Communists try to undermine his work.

“archival evidence”

The survivors of Bolshevik Communism have something to say about this issue, I think they may know just a little more about the USSR than you, as you attempt to revise history, to place Communism in a marginally more positive position:

In 1995, the Russian state commissioner confirmed that 200,000 Russian Orthodox Priests, monks, and nuns were killed. In 1997 the remains of a Catholic Bishop and 30 priests were found at Sandormoch, 150 miles north of St. Petersburg. According to Russian schoolbooks, 20 million Soviet and East European citizens died in Communist Labour camps, while 15 million more were killed in mass executions. This number includes Christians, Jews, and various other denominations as well as nonbelievers.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_Warsaw_Pact_countries#USSR

If you went to school before the Soviet archives & Venona papers were opened up/released (1991-1995), you must read this book. If you don’t know what the Venona Project’s papers say, then your knowledge on immediate pre and post WWII Soviet espionage is incomplete and, most importantly, probably not accurate.
http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Exposing-Espionage-Americas-Traitors/product-reviews/0895262258/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

“Actually it CAN rehabilitate the USSR somewhat,”

The above statement destroys any credibility you had. If they were so great and good, why did millions rise up and throw the criminal, murderous, slave labor scum out?

It is pointless to argue with a known Communist, who is completely ignoring the established and proven facts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wccIqjrGGMk

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27 Paweł Żuk November 29, 2011 at 10:18 AM

“Pawel, we are clearly not going to come to an agreement on these issues, as you are clearly Pro-Communism, as such you cannot admit the truth.”

That’s just poisoning the well ; What, because I disagree with absurd figures, it means I am a communist? One does not logically follow from the other.

“You should take the time to actually read the references in my post, all of your misdirection and inconsistency “arguments” were already addressed.”

Not really ; Rummel outright admits he hasn’t used and will not bother revising his work based on uncovered archival evidence ; We both know why, of course, except I consider that poor historiography why you think it’s the right thing to do because obviously communist archives are by definition full of lies :D

“I do my own research, not relying on any one resource. The fact that Rummel has a degree in Political Science, not history, is meaningless and has no bearing on his credibility. These types of arguments are standard Communist ploys, see the below video.”

Yes, only in politics can you tell someone’s degree has no bearing on his status as an expert :D

Nevertheless, the degree itself in tangential: it’s his lack of consideration for archival evidence that shows his methods are poor.

“This is why Communists try to undermine his work.”

Yeah, everything’s a communist conspiracy now. Never mind that actual historians also disagree strongly with Rummel’s (and other people’s) estimates?

http://web.archive.org/web/20080316220947/http://www.etext.org/Politics/Staljin/Staljin/articles/AHR/AHR.html

“The survivors of Bolshevik Communism have something to say about this issue, I think they may know just a little more about the USSR than you, as you attempt to revise history, to place Communism in a marginally more positive position:”

Being a survivor does not automatically mean one can precisely appreciate the scale of an event. Someone who’s never been to Russia who has access to official archives is much better placed to determine the actual death tolls, numbers of arrestees etc because he has the numbers in clear view. I have to stress this does not mean witness accounts are useless, just inappropriate for determining hard data.

“In 1995, the Russian state commissioner confirmed that 200,000 Russian Orthodox Priests, monks, and nuns were killed. In 1997 the remains of a Catholic Bishop and 30 priests were found at Sandormoch, 150 miles north of St. Petersburg. According to Russian schoolbooks, 20 million Soviet and East European citizens died in Communist Labour camps, while 15 million more were killed in mass executions. This number includes Christians, Jews, and various other denominations as well as nonbelievers.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_Warsaw_Pact_countries#USSR

And again, Soviet archives do not come anywhere close to 35 million people, which is almost 20% of the total population of the USSR :D

“The above statement destroys any credibility you had. If they were so great and good, why did millions rise up and throw the criminal, murderous, slave labor scum out?”

Does it perhaps not occur to you that it’s possible for a nation to be an opressive dictatorship without being a psychotic mass murdering opressive dictatorship? That countries can commit crimes and abuse their citizenry without being as bad as the Nazis?

The fact communism fell does not mean deliberate genocide occured ; It merely means communist governments were unpopular with the people, hardly a novel idea.

“It is pointless to argue with a known Communist, who is completely ignoring the established and proven facts:”

It’s great how you immediately label me. Did I paint you as an anarchocapitalist, neoconservative or any other sweeping label?

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28 Joe Brooks November 29, 2011 at 9:24 PM

The first man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine 1921-1923

Much has been written in recent years about the man-made famine that ravaged Ukraine in 1932-1933 and caused the deaths of 7 million to 10 million people. This is in stark contrast to the largely ignored famine of 1921-1923 – the first of three famines that Ukraine’s population has suffered under the Soviet Communist regime, and a famine that, contrary to popular belief, was not caused by drought and crop failures, but by the policies of the Soviet state.

What follows on the next few pages of The Ukrainian Weekly is a pull-out section about the 1921-1923 famine, featuring an article prepared and illustrations collected by Dr. Roman Serbyn, professor of Russian and East European history at the University of Quebec in Montreal. Prof. Serbyn is currently preparing an album of several hundred photographs and a monograph on the first man-made famine in Ukraine. He is co-editor with Dr. Bohdan Krawchenko of “Famine in Ukraine 1932-1933″ (Edmonton: Canadian Institute of Ukraine Studies, University of Alberta, 1986).

by Dr. Roman Serbyn

Grain requisition and export – not drought and poor harvest – were the real causes of the first great famine in Soviet Ukraine which occurred in 1921-1923. This is borne out by Western and Soviet documents alike.

The famine was concentrated in the rich grain-growing provinces of southern Ukraine, an area inhabited by about a third of the republic’s 26 million citizens. It affected both the rural and the urban population. Most of the victims were Ukrainians; national minorities like Germans, Jews and Russians also suffered. Between the fall of 1921 and the spring of 1923, 1.5 million to 2 million people died of starvation and due to accompanying epidemics.
http://goo.gl/3MXsE

Add these Soviet intentional ethnic cleansing famines to the above mentioned 35 million executed or killed in the gulags and you reach your “absurd” 50 million number pretty easily.

Inconsistency, revisited:

You stressed this before being proven incorrect:

“Rummel’s numbers do not match archival evidence we now have access to”

Now you contradict yourself when confronted with evidence from the Russians themselves, who have the documents, experience and undeniably have the most “clear view” of the facts:

“Being a survivor does not automatically mean one can precisely appreciate the scale of an event. Someone who’s never been to Russia who has access to official archives is much better placed to determine the actual death tolls, numbers of arrestees etc because he has the numbers in clear view.”

“Did I paint you as an anarchocapitalist, neoconservative or any other sweeping label”

BTW, I am glad you brought this issue up as those false conservative ideologies lead to Communism in practice and were created by USSR era Russian/German spies and emigrants to the US. I am an old school Republican and follow the American School of Economics, not the free trade looting of America, yet economic protections for all other nations, Communist Economist dogma currently preached in the US.

Silvermaster Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Gregory_Silvermaster

The Naked Communist
The list of communist goals contained in the book was read into the Congressional Record by U.S. Congressman Albert S. Herlong, Jr. of Florida, on January 10, 1963.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Communist

Here is a 1958 DOD/Jack Warner production warning Americans of the dangers of Communism in the US. Pay close attention to the Commissar in the town square at 27 minutes, he tells his minions how “free trade” will destroy the US. If you watch the entire “Freedom and You” film, it is practically clairvoyant.
http://www.archive.org/details/gov.archives.arc.48469

American School of Economics
The name, “American System,” was coined by Clay to distinguish it, as a school of thought, from the competing theory of economics at the time, the “British System” represented by Adam Smith in his work Wealth of Nations.[17]
It is a capitalist economic school based on the Hamiltonian economic program.[12] The American School of capitalism was intended to allow the United States to become economically independent and nationally self-sufficient.

The American School’s key elements were promoted by John Q. Adams and his National Republican Party, Henry Clay and the Whig Party, and Abraham Lincoln through the early Republican Party which embraced, implemented, and maintained this economic system.[13]
The American School included three cardinal policy points:

1.Support industry: The advocacy of protectionism, and opposition to free trade – particularly for the protection of “infant industries” and those facing import competition from abroad. Examples: Tariff of 1816 and Morrill Tariff
2.Create physical infrastructure: Government finance of internal improvements to speed commerce and develop industry. This involved the regulation of privately held infrastructure, to ensure that it meets the nation’s needs. Examples: Cumberland Road and Union Pacific Railroad
3.Create financial infrastructure: A government sponsored National Bank to issue currency and encourage commerce. This involved the use of sovereign powers for the regulation of credit to encourage the development of the economy, and to deter speculation. Examples: First Bank of the United States, Second Bank of the United States, and National Banking Act[12]
Henry C. Carey, a leading American economist and adviser to Abraham Lincoln, in his book Harmony of Interests, displays two additional points of this American School economic philosophy that distinguishes it from the systems of Adam Smith or Karl Marx:

1.Government support for the development of science and public education through a public ‘common’ school system and investments in creative research through grants and subsidies.
2.Rejection of class struggle, in favor of the “Harmony of Interests” between: owners and workers, farmer and manufacturers, the wealthy class and the working class.[18]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)

Pawel, I have a mountain of information to work with on the subject of International Communism, after 2 years of study, I essentially wrote a book in PowerPoint form, that I have made available free to many people for over a year.

At this point, however, any reasonable person who has followed the debate and actually read my posts would conclude that your original premise is disproved. I do not wish to clutter Scott’s site with information that is not directly germane to his intent.

Thanks, Joe Brooks

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29 JON December 15, 2011 at 9:16 AM

Where are the list of the body counts , countries left in ruins etc etc left by imperialistic capitalism USA (as the agressor) ?

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30 Anonymous December 22, 2011 at 7:43 AM

Despite the slanted nature of your question; Rudolph Rummel (the researcher behind much of the statistics present) has estimates on his website of civilian casualties at the hands of the US military between 1900-1987, and compared with their fascist opponents during WW2, and their communist adversaries during the Cold War; they are largely trivial. Between 500,000 – 1.6 million, over that period (low and high estimate). It’s actually quite interesting that a prominent super power has killed such a low number of people (even if conceding the high estimate) compared to other rising/present super powers of the day, and of the past. Compare these figures to Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Communist/Nationalist China, Imperial Japan, and you will see this point. That is, however, not an omission that they are in some way faultless.

Nearly half of this estimated number is between the turn of the 20th century, and the end of WW2, when the US did have a short lived phase of colonialism (Phillipines and Liberia come to mind), and during the two major world wars of which the US did indiscriminately target civilians (German/Japanese civilians in aerial bombings of cities, the use of nuclear weapons, killing of French civilians, etc…). I’ll leave you to fill in the rest.

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31 wolverine114 February 7, 2012 at 7:07 PM

One small fact seems to have escaped those comparing the deaths caused by Fascism (Nazism) and those klled under Communist oppression. Nazis, as evil and abhorrent as they were, tended to treat their own citizens well. Their extreme form of nationalism was based upon the concept of racial superiority, and they turned their wrath on those they considered inferior…Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, etc.

Communists on the other hand killed their own people by the tens of millions. I recognize a death is a death, but a government that cynically kills its own in order to stay in power is a special category of evil unto itself.

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32 jimmie April 10, 2012 at 1:43 AM

Some people think that Christians have killed more, they are wrong, some may say poverty kills more and blame capitalism. Take freedom to prosper we will all die.

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33 Hungarian November 1, 2012 at 9:49 PM

And the hypocrite EU allows the red star and other communist symbols to be used. The hypocrite EU even makes them a norm. The hypocrite EU punishes member countries that bans these symbols.
Down with the hypocrite left-liberal EU!

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34 Gus November 9, 2012 at 1:11 PM

Hi,

on the above link Countires list are missing few where communits killed people.

At first glance, the main one not listed is Colombia where the FARC constantly kill people in a so “called” civil-war since over half century.

Is such a shadow conflict enough to not include Colombia?

Regards

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35 Scott Manning November 9, 2012 at 1:38 PM

Hi Gus, the vision behind the list of countries is to identify Communist governments that killed people. Columbia never had an official Communist government. I excluded Spain for the same reason even thought it had a bloody civil war with Communists on one side.

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36 Annonymous December 5, 2012 at 4:38 PM

Stalin, Mao, Hitler were all Nationalist. Hitler was a ultrasnationalist/ fascist, far away from the Social scale of communism. Stalin was a state capitalist that used the idea of communism to attract people under one flag, but was no better than the United States using democracy to rally up supporters when the United States was not even founded on democracy. Mao branched off Stalinism, and was a Nationalist/State Capitalist as well. Majority of these countries were under the left hand of the United States by imperialism. Prime example the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia & Pol Pot.

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37 Joe January 24, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Do you have any other sources but Rummel?
And if those are mid sources, what are high estimates? A billion in a time when the worlds population was about 3.5 billion?

Deranged fits you more than angry.
Please do not that North Korea is democratic and so is Cambodia.
Oh, they aren’t? But they do write that they are. I see you are going by the red stars on the flags, not their ideologies neither. Not that your already sold and washed mind will listen to sound reason, but perhaps someone less foolish who reads this will.

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38 Tom Adams May 13, 2014 at 11:28 PM

Rummel is by far the best source…

AND he underestimates grossly!

He just died…

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39 Joe January 24, 2013 at 6:37 PM

Oh, this is more interesting though. I just glanced at your Facebook-page a little and it does seem you have a fascination with medieval times and kings. Now roleplaying and all of that aside (and fine) it seems that your stretches a bit further. Often people get bogged down into discussions about US and western / imperialist wars contra communist.
Ridiculously enough both sides often forget, and in your case even seem to honor ancient feudal kings and lords who held entire populations as serfs, forced wars over nothing but their personal wealth and starved entired populations to be able to procure the means of war. Yet their statues stand, in both western and eastern countries and even during the cold war.

Oh the hypocrisy in humanity is so great it makes me sick sometimes.

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40 Terri March 2, 2013 at 5:00 AM

Thank you for the detailed information and the references

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41 Gus July 21, 2013 at 11:42 PM

Hi,

Today we had another bunch of victims killed by Communist people in Colombia:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/10194296/15-Colombian-soldiers-killed-in-deadly-ambush-by-Farc-rebels.html

Similar accident happened at the end of May in the North-East of India, if it went unnoticed:

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/death-toll-in-indian-maoist-attack-rises/687386.html

Shouldn’t these victims be included in the Communist Body Count?

Furthermore, I was wondering if also people who dies fleeing countries like Cuba and/or North-Korea like stowaways, balceros (people who use wheel air chamber wrapped with a fishing net and set off in the sea) or simply died by cold on the skirts of North-Korea borders should be added.

Regards

Gus

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42 Tom Adams May 13, 2014 at 11:26 PM

Isn’t it amazing how the numbers grow daily…

and yet there are people who refuse to believe them!

Have you run into these correllary threats:

The Communist Takeover Of America

Yuri Bezmenov mentions the Hue assassinations, useful idiots, demoralization, etc…

MUST SEE ONCE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iz3VjoHXLA&feature=youtu.be

The 45 Declared Goals from the Manifesto of the American Communist Party

http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm

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43 Andres Herrera September 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

Capitalism killed 20 billion people on the planet

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44 Gus September 16, 2013 at 2:11 AM

As Andreas Herrera said: capitalism killed 20 billion of people?

How did they di it? Using the Kalasnikov AK47 or sending people from Cuba to Florida with inflated dinghies (balceros)?

Ah nope, capitalism killed all those people creating first money for them and then letting them die by starvation as the communists did in China and Ukraine.

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45 Tom Adams May 13, 2014 at 11:26 PM

what is this???

the nonsense thread?

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46 Stacy October 18, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Staggering numbers. I feel a bit sick seeing them pile up like this. I was just wondering why the body count of Hitler’s Socialist Nazi party did come up.

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47 Douglas November 25, 2013 at 10:16 PM

Communism/Socialist Revolutions are the most bloody ideologies ever existed on Earth.

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48 freedom warrior December 16, 2013 at 7:46 PM

It’s time that we act before communism takes a firm grip on America. If we don’t act now it will cost the lives of many civilians hereafter. To all Marylander s: If you know some one who just diapered with out a trace, There is a reason why. Your state is the Guinna pig of the Feds.It is the breeding ground of socialism. Get out while you still can so you don’t end up in the secret Obama camps. If any thing happens to me, suspect foul play. -A 15 year old who was to smart for her own good, and may possible face secret execution or imprisonment, especial for exposing her state true colors-RED
p.s.Welcome to the peoples republic of Maryland.

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49 Veritas11 December 30, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Yes with atheist-marxism one can add atheist-nazism…both are similar in that they are atheistic, materialistic and hold the state as supreme. The differences do not affect the core ideology. The list of deaths should therefore include those under Nazism.

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50 Tom Adams April 20, 2014 at 4:30 PM

I think these numbers are a bit low.

Rummel compiled a list of atheist/commie murder sprees as documented by other scholars, one per line…

Each line has a low, middle and max body count, based on the various experts’ analyses…

Rummel read Mao’s granddaughter’s book that proved that Mao’s Great Leap Forward mass starvation was intentional, not starved by accident…

Rummel corrected his data for China up by 32,000,000 accordingly…

Projecting that error onto the other atheist/commie murder sprees makes the max figure more accurate!

actually there is at least one scientist who agrees with my conclusion about every one of the 200 plus atheist mass murders…

the author whose high number Rummel cited…

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF

I think the commies murdered more Chinese than the Japanese…

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51 Tom Adams May 13, 2014 at 11:23 PM

I think these numbers are a bit low.

Rummel compiled a list of atheist/commie murder sprees as documented by other scholars, one per line…

Each line has a low, middle and max body count, based on the various experts’ analyses…

Rummel read Mao’s granddaughter’s book that proved that Mao’s Great Leap Forward mass starvation was intentional, not starved by accident…

Rummel corrected his data for China up by 32,000,000 accordingly…

Projecting that error onto the other atheist/commie murder sprees makes the max figure more accurate!

actually there is at least one scientist who agrees with my conclusion about every one of the 200 plus atheist mass murders…

the author whose high number Rummel cited…

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF

I think the commies murdered more Chinese than the Japanese…

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52 Chris Szabó May 16, 2014 at 9:56 AM

I am surprised that the body count for the People’s Republic of Hungary is a mere 27,000. Where do the deaths of those deported to the GuLag come in? It seems to slip between the cracks. My relatives who were deported between 1944 and 1947, many of whom have no known grave, are not in this body count! At least 650,000 people were taken from their homes and shunted into the Soviet prisons systems in this period. And there were similar events in Eastern Germany and Poland, as well as the Baltic States. I’d request you represent themm, too. They were human beings whose murder deserves at least a mention.

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53 Tom Adams May 16, 2014 at 5:26 PM

The body count of the people murdered by communists under the direction of atheist-only politburos is over 259 million!

Most body counters allow the commies to pretend that forcing people to stay in one location, while subsequently stealing their food, is somehow natural causes! bureaucratic error?

The most accurate body counter is Rummel, who just died March 2, 2014 !

I cite this gif print of a spreadsheet totaling all he democides in he last century even though it is dated and requires updates to be encyclopedic!

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF

Rummel compiled a list of atheist/commie murder sprees as documented by other scholars, one per line…

Each line has a low, middle and max body count, based on the various experts’ analyses…

Rummel read Mao’s granddaughter’s book that proved that Mao’s Great Leap Forward mass starvation was intentional, not starved by accident…

Rummel corrected his data for China up by 32,000,000 accordingly…

Projecting that error onto the other atheist/commie murder sprees makes the max figure more accurate!

actually there is at least one scientist who agrees with my conclusion about every one of the 200 plus atheist mass murders…

the author whose high number Rummel cited…

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF

I think the commies murdered more Chinese than the Japanese…

Here are some other interesting Rummel sites:

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/PERSONAL.HTM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Rummel
http://www.amazon.com/R.-J.-Rummel/e/B001HPG3T4

http://hawaii.edu/powerkills/FREEMAN.INTERVIEW.HTM

http://democraticpeace.wordpress.com/about/

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